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ValuesLiberty [S] 31 points ago +31 / -0

A few years ago, the company I was working for in the city went bust.

I was ok with that, I was sick of working in an office anyways...The Urban rot of the mid-2010s was just becoming worst each year.

Thankfully I had saved up a small amount of $$ while I was working and used it to buy some land in the middle of nowhere.

I researched to death, what could I do for the rest of my life with my 15 acres?

I already knew an Agrarian Amish way of life was vastly superior to the ways I had been brought up...

I knew I wanted to start a family and wanted to start a business that brought me closer to that family.

Years prior I was in a relationship with a family from overseas and they loved to eat Goat meat. I developed a liking to the taste.

And in my research I came to learn that Goats are in low supply, because most Americans have never eaten Goat.

Yet, Goat is in very high demand, because America has lots of immigrants who desire to consume Goat.

So I have dedicated the last nearly 3 years to this craft.

Ask away Kings...

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HipsterPhilosopher 20 points ago +20 / -0

Based and shekelpilled.

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ValuesLiberty [S] 5 points ago +5 / -0

Market Reports to check Live Goat Auction prices where you live: https://www.ams.usda.gov/market-news/goat-reports

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Famousshamus 11 points ago +11 / -0

I live in small town central appalachia and goats are cheap, less than a hundred for a nanny. Can I make bank transporting goats to southern pennsylvania and northern virginia?

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ValuesLiberty [S] 9 points ago +9 / -0

I have to presume that $100 nanny will need to be fed for 30-60 days to really make her shine into a $200 goat.

So maybe feed her for 30-60 days then sell her.

Also, Check the Market Auction Reports in Penn/VA.

Lots of a Goats head to Penn/NYC/Chicago...

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Famousshamus 4 points ago +4 / -0

Would you reccomend investing in goats with papers or starting off without them? I already have some land and am in the process of adding fencing

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ValuesLiberty [S] 4 points ago +4 / -0

Most people with registered goats only register a small percentage of them. Figure out what your target market wants, then figure out the type of Goat.

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ValuesLiberty [S] 4 points ago +4 / -0

Also to add one more point. Meat eaters could care less about papers.

Only fellow Goat Breeders care. That market is small....

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Famousshamus 3 points ago +3 / -0

Oh thats good to know, I thought a paper trail was for the meat market specifically.

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ValuesLiberty [S] 3 points ago +3 / -0

One more idea if you are up to the challenge.

Buy those $100 goats the the auction.

Put them on someone else's land for 90 days as weed/brush control and get paid to feed them.

Sell them for $200 at the end of the growing season.

This is in essence what I did my first year starting out with no other experience as what to do.

It was a ton of work renting them out that first year, but I built muscles, memories & pictures to last a life time...

Now I focus more on 3-4 different avenues for profiting from my goats so I am not beholden to any one avenue.

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coldbora 7 points ago +7 / -0

Are you making and selling goat milk and cheese? If not, why?

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ValuesLiberty [S] 6 points ago +6 / -0

I decided early on that I was not into milk & cheese production so I started breeding Meat Goats. Not to say you cannot get Milk from Meat Goats, but really you want Dairy Goats if you want to focus on Milk production.

Dairy Goats typically have long legs, and are bred for high milk production.

Meat Goats typically have shorter meatier legs and rumps, and are bred for maximum meat production.

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happybillmoney 6 points ago +6 / -0

Goat or not to goat?

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ValuesLiberty [S] 10 points ago +10 / -0

That is the question.

You know my answer.

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consoomer9472 6 points ago +6 / -0

How did you obtain the goat farm and what means allowed you to do so? It definitely seems like something worth getting into if you have the time and money, but not all of us live out in the country or could do so for a variety of reasons.

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ValuesLiberty [S] 10 points ago +10 / -0 (edited)

I suffered mildly in a job I was semi passionate about, until the company went bankrupt. Then I took what savings I had and bought 15 Acres.

Rented my goats out for the first year to make $$.

Now I sell Goats to make $$, since they breed prolifically...

It is worth pointing out as well that I had no prior experience. If you asked me 10 years ago if I could ever do this I would have said you're crazy.

And yet here I am today as your humbled white pilled goat farmer...

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ParadigmShift2070 4 points ago +4 / -0

What do rented goats do? I hope it's not for Muslim pleasures....

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ValuesLiberty [S] 6 points ago +6 / -0

Great question.

Goats are one of the few type of ruminants that really love to eat noxious weeds that other livestock will refuse to eat.

Because of this you can get paid to rent them to other people with noxious weed issues.

I had one client who had a few acres filled with poison oak and other clients who have had pastors filled with star thistle.

Goats prefer to eat the poisonous weeds first! Poison oak is one of my goats favorite delicacies...

In other parts of the country I hear kudzu is a problem and goats love to eat it.

Also Berry brambles, Goats can absolutely destroy them in a short period of time.

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Homopratensis -1 points ago +1 / -2

Yes, goats destroy. They destroy destroy destroy. 3 years you've been at it you say? On other people's land you say? Love to see it. Like pictures, website, something other than the same stock photo.

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ValuesLiberty [S] 3 points ago +3 / -0 (edited)

"something other than the same stock photo."

Here is my business card with my phone # blocked: https://ibb.co/vDK9TKn

Note: The Goat on the bottom of my business card facing the camera is the same as the goat on the right side on top of this tree: https://consumeproduct.win/p/HXok0gTg/reclaim-your-destiny-goats/c/

Also here: (top left): https://consumeproduct.win/p/HXk3Lze7/kings-do-not-forget-the-goat-lif/c/

Also you will see her on the right side of my trailer: https://consumeproduct.win/p/HrKIlTvA/kings--goats-you-too-will-be-fre/c/

"On other people's land you say?"

"Love to see it."

If you look real close you will see her by the Barn here: https://consumeproduct.win/p/HYGlCKot/they-took-this-from-you-reclaim-/c/

btw this last photo was a rental gig, that is not my barn, and note the temporary fencing. Also note the giant cattle water troughs. Only a cattlemen who gave up on cattle because they waste money would rent my goats to clear out his weed infested pasture. True Story... and I have pics to prove it...

Seriously my friend, take less goat blackpills and some more goat whitepills.

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ValuesLiberty [S] 2 points ago +2 / -0

Also, yes, they destroy noxious weeds and brush.

That is why people rent them from me.

Destruction isnt a bug, its a feature.

Don't leave them in one spot too long and the soil is fine.

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Homopratensis 1 point ago +2 / -1 (edited)

Three years ain't nuffin. Come back in thirty and tell me about goats. Anyone can go make a business card and I don't see 200 unique goats there. You read a lot of books on gosts, probably less than I have, and you've kept them a fraction of the time. Perhaps some initial success with low hanging fruit coming your way. Congratulations. You haven't even been doing this long enough to see your brood ewes get old or have to replace your bucks.

You do realize that these advantageous gigs of clearing out weedy pastures will go away in short time in your area if your operation grows to a size of any consequence. I thought the same thing when I learned that goats ate japanese honeysuckle. Too bad thet eat every good plant beforehand. Now what do you feed the brood mares in the winter? Do you plan on moving once the scrub is gone? Or is the land so neglected where you are that there is a limitless supply?

Where you live is obviously dry so I somewhat believe your claims of not trimming or worming. In much of the US this would be a barrier. I had to worm twice a year and lost some kids to coccidicia (year six or seven, forget now) and dozens to coyotes. I've never lost any cattle to disease or predation, and basically have never heard of it from anybody. I always found about two dozen goats a limit for being able to manage them. They like to scatter, not flock like sheep and turkeys. I never found electric netting sufficient for 100% control for goats. I keep even calves behind one or at most two strins of twine. Granted I never used dogs, which may have made the predation and herding problems better, but how many goats have to pay for those beasts dog food? I always intensely disliked the attitude of bucks and the fact you had to keep them around (I AI all my cattle, have never kept bulls) and dairy weathers were hardly worth the trouble to slaughter. The only way I liked the meat was kebabs or ground. The few boers I kept were better and certainky meatier but not massively so. They also needed some grain IMO to finish well.

Goats are not magical. Their efficiency is similar to other ruminants, equal to sheep and slightly less than that of cattle. Their need to browse in my experience is quite acute. They do not thrive on ordinary grasses and legumes the way cattle or sheep can. They destroy Woodlands after a few years leaving only intractable scrub in their wake. If a goat wont eat it nothing will. To me this is their worst trait. Yes they eat weeds that other ruiminets are more reluctant to eat, but they always eat the cake first. I've released goats into good pastures of red clover and good grass. They do target a few weeds they have a predilection for like curly duck that cattle won't eat unless starved. But once those are gone they eat the good stuff and ignore the dozen other weed species like thistles, burdock, foxtail grass, jap knotweed etc. Only after depletion of the clover and palatable forbs and grasses (chicory, orchardgrass, etc) do these get targeted, and usually after they jumped the fence and girdled an apple tree or destroyed your garden.

Also, as meat animals they are a pain. Many if not all the slaughter houses where I live refuse sheep and goats. Too small...waste of time. And no mass market. This leaves one to direct market, which is more profitable, but makes you salesman, whom I detest. Where I live the abundance of hobby goat keepers satisfies the local mohammadeans, about the only people on earth who seem to have a preference for goats for some reason.

In short, I kept goats (though mostly dairy, boers were just making their appearance around here back then) for 13 years and have heard many a goat advocate. There's nothing wrong with them, but they are like all livestock. Good husbandry (knowing the animal and giving them what they need to thrive), thrift, and planning is the key. In humid high rainfall areas cattle are superior meat animals (and vastly superior dairy animals) all things considered. Bottle calves are practically given away sometimes and I can turn one bought in april into rose veal by november or December. A 100 dollar or less calf into 1000 dollars of meat on no grain or hay...only milk from retired dairy cattle and ordinary pasture. If only I had more space. Never had any trouble selling them either. In fact, never enough supply.

I don't want to be a negative person but a realistic one. All it takes is one drought, one serious liability incident, or bunch of switchgrass (toxic to goats/sheep, harmless to bovids) and operations can get wiped out. While I generally encourage any kind of movement of folks back to the land I think they need to keep an open mind and not get taken in by fads and salesmen. Just look up Jerusalem artichokes. I personally think pastured broiler chickens are a fraud. Anytime a person singles out one crop, animal, or system as wonderful rings my warning bells.

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ValuesLiberty [S] 2 points ago +2 / -0 (edited)

Three years ain't nuffin. Come back in thirty and tell me about goats. Anyone can go make a business card and I don't see 200 unique goats there.

Sure, I plan on raising Goats until I die.

And I am glad we went from you accusing me of using stock photos to… You accusing me of not owning enough goats.

We have about 100 goats at the moment, but as you said,

They like to scatter, not flock like sheep and turkeys. 

So they are not always in the same place at the same time so it is hard to get a photo of all of them at once.

Anytime a person singles out one crop, animal, or system as wonderful rings my warning bells.

But that is the exact same thing you are doing. To summarize your point, Goats suck. Cattle Rock.

What is amazing to me about this is that, probably half the Cattlemen I meet, either have your point of view, or the other half is wondering what they need to do to get on the Goat bandwagon where I live.

Lots of demand in the Goat Market and much less turbulent prices. To bolster my point, Goats were completely absent of CFAP1, because Goat producers never saw a drop in Goat Market prices due to Covid. I am not making this up.

All it takes is one drought, one serious liability incident, or bunch of switchgrass (toxic to goats/sheep, harmless to bovids) and operations can get wiped out.

Sure, and that is part of the fun & challenge of being a farmer. This is not a Goat issue.

 In humid high rainfall areas cattle are superior meat animals

Agreed. Goats are not for wet climates. I hear sheep also do well in high humid areas too.

Many if not all the slaughter houses where I live refuse sheep and goats. Too small...waste of time. And no mass market. 

Every City in America is overrun with Immigrants, so I am surprised to hear you say this.

No mass market for Sheep? The Sheep processor which slaughters my goats processes 800,000 sheep a year. They seem to be doing well and I am glad they process my goats for me.

This leaves one to direct market, which is more profitable, but makes you salesman, whom I detest. 

I would make a horrible salesman, luckily I do not have to be. With computers you have: Automated e-mail sequences. Automated Ad Campaigns. I literally have never had to talk to one of my customers for my direct meat sales. It is 100% automated.

I've released goats into good pastures of red clover and good grass. 

Well that was dumb. They will eat everything else first. How come you didn’t read this in any of your goat books? Chart from OSU: https://ibb.co/GJ72Gvb

Only after depletion of the clover and palatable forbs and grasses (chicory, orchardgrass, etc) do these get targeted, and usually after they jumped the fence and girdled an apple tree or destroyed your garden.

Jumping a fence? How fat are your meat goats if they are jumping fences? I literally have never seen one of my fat meat goats jump a fence, as they are fat. They go under the fence or through it, maybe, but never over it. I have only heard of Tall Thin Dairy goats doing this… which I do not own...

You make some fair points, but some of them are odd...

And I guess my real question is, if you're into agrarian lifestyles why are you trying to discourage me or anyone else from living that dream?

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ValuesLiberty [S] 2 points ago +2 / -0

Also one more thing to add. I would love to learn more about what you are doing.

Good husbandry (knowing the animal and giving them what they need to thrive), thrift, and planning is the key. In humid high rainfall areas cattle are superior meat animals (and vastly superior dairy animals) all things considered. Bottle calves are practically given away sometimes and I can turn one bought in april into rose veal by november or December. A 100 dollar or less calf into 1000 dollars of meat on no grain or hay...only milk from retired dairy cattle and ordinary pasture. If only I had more space. Never had any trouble selling them either. In fact, never enough supply.

Tell us more about strategies you could teach others that are interested in an agrarian lifestyle to earn a living from bottle calves. This sounds like an opportunity for some people.

And from what I hear in my contacts in the cattle industry: a lot of heifers have been slaughtered recently and there's actually going to be a shortage of calves this next few years? Any truth to this?

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joe_bidens_nostrils 6 points ago +6 / -0

Nice post. When I was a kid (pun intended) we had a lot of goats. About 7 or 8 different variants, although as I remember most were Alpine, Togs, and Nubians. I used to show some of mine. Won some ribbons, too.

When my parents were clearing out all their old books they did not want anymore, I snatched up every goat related book I could find. A lot of wisdom in them from the 1940s and 1950s.

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ValuesLiberty [S] 5 points ago +5 / -0

Sounds like you had a good variety of dairy goats!

Dig up those old books my man and let us know some titles and authors!

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serfer 6 points ago +6 / -0

Felt cute, might bleat later

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CringeGoblinVEVO 4 points ago +4 / -0

What is your income like? is it liveable? I would like to have a family but I would need to know if the goat life is sustainable for me. Also can goats grow in Florida

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ValuesLiberty [S] 7 points ago +7 / -0 (edited)

Here is a modest budgeting plan for Goat Dummies. I will call it the "Lazy Method".

200 Goat kids born each year, sold for $200 each.

$40,000 revenue from selling goat kids.

Costs: Worst case scenario with poor pasture. 20 cents per goat to feed each day. 134 does to birth 200 kids (<1.5 kids per doe) This will improve to 2 kids per doe with generous culling of single birth does.

(200 kids + 134 does) * .20 cents per goat in feed = 66.8 in feed costs per day for your herd. Assuming you keep the kids for 365 days, you will have no problem fetching $200 per goat even at the livestock auction. They should weigh at least 70 lb.

Assumptions: Zero Debt, land bought and owned and fenced in with shelter if needed. (I do not have any shelter) (Note: renting goats out = extra Profit)

Profit after 365 days = 40,000 - (365*66.8) = $15,618

As you can see this lazy method of selling goats for $200 each at the auction it isn't very profitable but it is very easy. I will outline some more advanced budgets next for hard workers.

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ValuesLiberty [S] 8 points ago +8 / -0 (edited)

Here is a more advanced budget selling meat direct, but it is more work. I do a blend of the hard and lazy method of selling goats.

200 Goat kids born each year, sold for $600 each. (30 lb. of usable meat per goat at $20 a lb.)

$120,000 revenue from selling goat meat.

Same feed costs as the previous budget, (365 * 66.8) = $24,382, so we are down to $95,618 after feed costs are factored in.

Butcher costs on 200 goats for me runs about $28,000 annually. I have them butchered 20 at a time, so I have space to store the meat in 2 chest freezers.

I then sell the meat direct to the consumer via a few online methods. So we are left with $67,618 profit if we sell the meat direct to the consumer.

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ValuesLiberty [S] 5 points ago +5 / -0 (edited)

Here's some more numbers just to throw out at you. I love doing goat math.

30 goats grass only, sold at start of dry season. Assuming you have a 90 to 120 day good growing season. Selling goats at 30 to 40 lb. $3000 in revenue, all profit. Zero expenses.

30 goats sold year round, direct to consumer. $20 a pound. $20-30,000 in revenue. Minus $3600 in butcher costs. Minus $5000 in feed costs. $12-22k in profit.

30 goats sold at auction after feeding for one year. $7,000-8,000 in revenue. Feed costs $4,000-5,000. $3,000-$4,000 in revenue.

Rent your goats out sporadically at $500 to $1,000 an acre.

You could easily do all of this with 90 goat kids from 60 good goat mothers annually.

As you can see the average goat farmer should be able to make at least $30,000 to $40,000 a year with a small starting herd of 60 good mothers.

This is the one of the reasons why being debt-free is so powerful my friends.

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BigBeef 4 points ago +4 / -0

I assume there’s a lot of specific knowledge required to reject modernity and embrace goat. Where did you acquire the knowledge to begin raising goats?

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ValuesLiberty [S] 6 points ago +6 / -0

Mostly from talking to people I was buying goats from.

Then from some online resources perhaps.

And also from a few good books I have mentioned before.

I had 100% absolutely no experience in this when I started.

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EauRouge 3 points ago +3 / -0

How much land is required to get started in the goat game? Is there a ‘goats per acre’ rule of thumb?

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ValuesLiberty [S] 4 points ago +4 / -0

You could start with zero land. You could lease land. Or you could have other people pay you to use their land. That is the beauty with goats (and sheep BTW).

The amount of goats per acre is highly dependent on the quality of the pasture.

That said, a basic rule is 6 goats per acre. So for 100 goats you would need 16.6 acres.

You can also supplement feed them to fit more goats.

When renting goats, I would typically rent out 20-40 goats at a time, and 20 goats can eat 1 acre in 1 months, so 40 goats = 2 weeks. I would charge at least $500 per acre, but preferably $1000 per acre, especially if I need to truck in my own water and setup my own portable fences.

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ez0per8r 3 points ago +3 / -0

Good resources for learning homesteading/ taking care of livestock for city slickers with no idea of what to do?

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ValuesLiberty [S] 6 points ago +6 / -0

Onion Creek ranch has an annual Goat class in Texas that I hear is good.

I think this book is the best: https://consumeproduct.win/p/HXodD8ZF/daily-dose-of-goat--meat-goat-ha/c/

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ez0per8r 2 points ago +2 / -0

Thank you!

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ValuesLiberty [S] 4 points ago +4 / -0

I can't believe I forgot to mention my other favorite book.

It is a short and simple read and by the end of it you should know whether you want to get into goats or not.

It is called, "Raising meat goats in a commercial operation" authored by Greg Christensen.

I highly recommend it... Short, simple and full of truth.

My favorite quote from it is

“Sweating it out with your family by your side makes it all worth it..."

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frenofknights 3 points ago +3 / -0

How much money do you get from goats? Do you need to work side jobs still? What do people even do with your goats? Meat or milk?

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ValuesLiberty [S] 3 points ago +3 / -0 (edited)

I am happy with the amount of money I make from my goats. I mostly sell them as meat. If I ever want to make more I can rent them out as weed/brush control to make some more, or I can sell the meat direct to the consumer. If I want to be lazy, and just sell goats at the auction, I will make less profit. I will outline a few different example budgets as well.

The more avenues you can explore with goats, the more you will make. I mainly focus on the 3 avenues I discuss. Selling Meat Direct, Occasionally selling goats at auction, and renting goats out for weed and brush control.

Depending on the season or demand, I may focus on one or two of these avenues more or less.

2
ValuesLiberty [S] 2 points ago +2 / -0

I put my example budgets above as a reply to another poster.

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Mentalwobbling 3 points ago +3 / -0

You're living the dream. As someone who just graduated college a few months ago I'm really looking into building a remote live style like you did. Started a wage fuck job to save some money for this purpose. I've got two questions for you: How much money would you recommend a guy in his mid twenties to save up before moving out to a remote place to build a small homestead ? How do you cope with loneliness? I get that the goats are cozy but don't you miss any friends or family? Thanks for your presence on this board, keep the goat posts coming

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ValuesLiberty [S] 4 points ago +4 / -0

Great questions!

How much money would you recommend a guy in his mid twenties to save up before moving out to a remote place to build a small homestead ?

That's a tough question but here is what I did. I bought the land for $55k (15acres). Lived on the land in a camper with my wife for the first year.

Put a small $60k home on it the second year. Drilling a well and adding a septic cost will vary in your area. Solar was cheap because I did it myself.

Get twice as much land as you think you need ;)

How do you cope with loneliness?

I have a wife and a 14-month-old son, and hopefully more children on the way. We eat out once a week at the local VFW and occasionally at the local saloon.

I get that the goats are cozy but don't you miss any friends or family? 

See above ;)

Also old friends and family visits the goat farm from time to time...

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Mentalwobbling 3 points ago +3 / -0

Thank you for the thorough answers, I wish your family well

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LukeLukens 2 points ago +2 / -0

So what feed do you use for your goats? Did you experiment with different feed types to min-max milk/meat production?

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ValuesLiberty [S] 4 points ago +4 / -0

I generally feed a mixture of hay, and a waste product (like almond hulls or sweet potato rejects) because they are low cost. When finishing a goat for butcher I may opt for a more expensive feed that is more corn based for 30-60 days.

I also provide loose minerals year round.

Worse case scenario with a mixture of the above I have calculated the cost between 10 and 20 cents a day to feed a goat when my pasture is out of season.

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AbsoluteNothingness 2 points ago +2 / -0

Is goat meat cheap? How can I get my hands on it?

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ValuesLiberty [S] 2 points ago +2 / -0

Any local Indian or halal Meat Market should have some if you want to try it in a pinch for cheap.

Also you can order it online from various places...

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LenExists 2 points ago +2 / -0

i like goat

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salazam -3 points ago +2 / -5

How did your family accept you converting to Islam?

3
ValuesLiberty [S] 3 points ago +3 / -0

lol, I had to think about this question for a bit... My reply is:

Join our Australian, New Zealand & South African Goat Farmer Brothers & Unite! It is not only Islam that desires Goat!

-5
salazam -5 points ago +1 / -6

I thought the Kiwis preferred to fuck sheep.

3
ValuesLiberty [S] 3 points ago +3 / -0 (edited)

Oh man, you are the best...

and probably correct...

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salazam -3 points ago +1 / -4

Instead of catering to immigrants, which are the plague of western society... have you ever thought of raising real livestock like cattle?

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ValuesLiberty [S] 3 points ago +3 / -0 (edited)

I have nothing against Cattle perse, they taste great.

But then again, 99% of the Cattle the World is eating are finished or raised all hopped up on artificial growth hormones, anti-biotics and corn, while living in small feedlot pens stressed out all the time.

Are these really the chemicals that you want your family eating?

And Cattle require much more equipment than Goats due to just the weight of them alone. (1000lb.+)

And the Cattle industry is flooded with suppliers, and the price of Cattle is so low, I do not think I would ever make any money with a small amount of land & resources.

In short: Cattle are for Factory Farms.

Goats are for Monke Farms...

-2
salazam -2 points ago +1 / -3

Sounds like a list of weak excuses to me. If you found the market for Achmed and Mohammed, surely you can find some hipsters to buy some grassfed pasture grazed beef. No one said you had to use hormones and feedlot pens.

And Cattle require much more equipment than Goats due to just the weight of them alone.

Ah with goats you don't need a stool to fuck them and you're afraid of them kicking you in the balls. I get it now.

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ValuesLiberty [S] 2 points ago +2 / -0

the price of Cattle is so low, I do not think I would ever make any money with a small amount of land & resources.

Sounds like a list of weak excuses to me.

Agriculture 101: If your farm doesn't make any $$, you won't be a farmer long.

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BreadandWinePilled -9 points ago +4 / -13

How many mods did you have to suck off to get this shit post stickied?

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ValuesLiberty [S] 9 points ago +11 / -2 (edited)

Folks, we have the best mods, don't we?

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Lichtenfeld 7 points ago +7 / -0

He didn’t suck them off, he slipped them a wheel of goat cheese under the table.

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happybillmoney 7 points ago +8 / -1

None lol. He just signed up for a AMA last week which was open to everyone.